Get It Quietly

Football, bollocks and a bit of poker if you're lucky.

Location: Enfield, London, United Kingdom

Saturday, April 16, 2005

Not Earning, But Learning

Well, I busted a World Champion today. Just have a think, who is the most unimpressive World Champion that I could bust ? You got it. Check it out here .

. . .

I popped in to the Bellagio on my way past to have a look around, as I like to do at least once a day, but the PPT is all cordoned off and if you want to see what’s going on you have to press your face up to the glass like a slack-jawed yokel going “Lookey there Lurlene it’s Annie Duke can ya believe it ?”. I don’t want to be cynical while I’m on holiday but these people are really trying my patience. Frankly I’d have been 90% as happy never setting foot in the Bellagio all week (and $2500 better off to boot). Which is a lesson in itself I suppose.

. . .

I'm not the only one who's less than star-struck at the quality of the PPT field. Daniel Negreanu makes a good point :

"It pains me to see some players in the event that don't even support the WPT. They used to play tournaments years ago, and either because they can no longer financially afford it, or weren't lucky enough to stay afloat, are given a free ride."

Negreanu is probably being tactful when he says "weren't lucky enough to stay afloat". I think he makes another good point when he says there should still be a buy in, with the half mill added on.

. . .

I was thinking about the hand I played against Avner Levy a couple of days ago. In brief, I called him down because I remembered seeing him bluff quite frequently in the past. The reason it was easy to remember is that he's so loud at the table. This must be another good argument for being unobtrusive at the table. If no one notices you, they won't remember how you play. If you behave * like Mad Yank all the time, people are going to remember you 2, 5, 10 years later.

* behave is probably the wrong word in this context !


Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Peter B

Unobtrusiveness, or rather the lack of it, is definitely one of my problems. Although I remember unobtrusive players, a lot of other players do not. So if I could keep a lower profile I might do better.

On the other hand, in limit games, having an image as a "good" and/or "aggressive" player is no bad thing. It helps you steer the table the way you want it to go.

Another factor, of course, is what you say is often more important than what you do. So lines like "I always call", plus extravagant movements when playing hands, but quietness when you fold, can serve to create a false image of looseness. The very quiet players who do nothing all the time except raise once in a blue moon usually get a series of folders after them. Contrarily, I nearly always get action to my raises, partly because people know there is a chance (although a small chance than they think) that I am "at it". There are also tricks you can use to get folders behind you (rather than callers) but I'm not giving those away...


10:16 AM  
Blogger Andy_Ward said...

Hi Pete,

You make excellent points on the Gutshot forum, as usual. I think one of my biggest problems at the moment, perhaps _the_ biggest, is allowing myself to be distracted by chatty players. This is a separate issue from giving away too much about your play, but they may have become slightly confused in my Gutshot article. My bad as they say over here :-)

I personally don't like to play the "chat as deliberate deception" game because it's not my strength. I do feel it's over-rated. A circuit player I rate very highly was telling me how another circuit player, well known for his table talk, talked his opponent out of a call he should have wanted (as the talker was 4/1 favourite).

In tournaments I think it's not necessary against bad players, and good players will see through you and actually gain information from my talking. Cash games are a different animal.


3:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Pete B
Slightly off topic, but I think that I should mention it here (rather than on GS). Read the thread about a player asking how he should play a drawing hand on the flop. Well, actually, don't bother to read it, because it's not that which is relevant. What is relevant is Derek's reply, that being "It depends whether you are still in the rebuy period or not ".

I love the implications of this statement (from a "good" player) so much that I felt like typing YBA.

Er, so you punt like a nutter in the rebuy period (even though it might be a bad bet) but don't after the rebuys end (even though it might be a good bet)? What, has £30 (or whatever) suddenly changed in value? Has a good percentage bet suddenly become a bad percentage bet (or vice-versa) because you can't immediately rejoin this particular game (but have to wait for one tomorrow night) if you lose?

I'm going to have to start playing these rebuy tournaments. I had the right idea when I first started playing them -- that a good bet was a good bet and a bad bet was a bad bet, no matter whether you could rebuy or not. It was just the fact that 99% of the populus kept saying differently that led me to doubt my own sanity.

Back on topic: Your previous point about the tourneys being easy money when there are rebuys reminded me of when I first went to Vegas and I played in the (now defunct) $35 NL tourney in the Stratosphere. I spotted this point as soon as the antes kicked in (nine players out of 40 left, five places paid) and I was a bit short-stacked. I went all-in four times in eight hands before the opposition suddennly realized that I had zoomed up to third-place stack without seeing a flop.
(BTW, I went out going all-in the sixth time with AJs and being called by the chip leader, who turned over A7. Needless to say, the flop was 77Q. But I did win a free entry to the next competition and a Statosphere mug. I still have the mug, whereas if I had won the $800 it would have been long-spent...)

10:03 PM  
Blogger Andy_Ward said...

As ever, two minds with a single thought.

The one single piece of advice I would give to someone asking the old rebuy/freezeout question is "avoid the temptation to play tight in a freezeout and to play loose during the rebuy period of a rebuy tournament".

Adapt your play to how others play differently in each format, and that's all.

By the way if I have one minor quibble with your GS post it's that I planned to stay silent in a tournament so that _Harry D_ would not know I was English, not "everyone" :-). That was a $1500 comp as well, I think I can be excused for putting my game face on for that !


PS In poker, question your sanity when 99% of people AGREE with you.

10:11 PM  
Blogger Fred Titmus said...


The fact that most people are playing dramatically differently during the rebuy period, and after it, means that Derek's advice has some validity because you have to take into account how your opponents are going to respond to your actions.

That said, I (of course!) didn't read the post in question so can't (or won't) comment on the particular hand. And as for calling Derek a good player, I thought the AAKQds thread had answered that one once and for all!

3:34 PM  

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