Wanna Be In My Gang ?
Well we did get an answer on the Gutshot rake issue in the end (see Gutshot and Hendon Mob Forums if you're really interested) : the management can't put their names to the rake situation because it's all too dodgy. OK, that's an explanation - lots of people don't seem to mind and that's all fine by me. Caveat emptor, as per usual.
I thought I might explain why I've never joined Gutshot, despite getting on well with Barry (and Steve when he was there) and lot of the people involved. Poker is not a team game, and tournament poker is even less of one. I prefer not to have any connection with people I don't trust. In poker, you don't have a list of people you don't trust, you have a list of people you do - and it's f**king short. While 90% of gutshotters, 1808 clubbers, whatever are probably fine, it's precisely the remaining 10% that could give you a problem. I don't want anyone expecting favours from me, trying to give me favours, or looking like they are receiving a favour when I make an unorthodox play. When all that people have to do to join a "gang" is send an Email, how can you possibly vouch for them all ?
It might seem like a small thing, but if you get these things right it always saves you problems in the long run. If you want to join, fine. Do be careful of one other thing though - there is a tendency in these "gangs" for people to over-congratulate each other on minor and/or plain lucky results. It used to drive me mad on Gutshot, someone would describe how the deck hit them so hard they should have won a tournament twice over, they finished 5th, and everyone would go "brilliant result mate, well done". Perhaps done with the best of intentions, but it's not good for your game to be told you're much better than you are. Caveat, as I said before, emptor.
If anyone wants to discuss this civilly, go right ahead, but flames/insults will be ignored.
17/8/04 Follow-up : Maybe I've been reading too much Maddox but this comment on the forum today made me laugh : "And anyway poker is for loners, the outcasts, the cowboys for gods sake. The concept of a poker gang is inherently gay". If he had said pirates it could have been Maddox himself. I can't disagree with the overall sentiment.
I thought I might explain why I've never joined Gutshot, despite getting on well with Barry (and Steve when he was there) and lot of the people involved. Poker is not a team game, and tournament poker is even less of one. I prefer not to have any connection with people I don't trust. In poker, you don't have a list of people you don't trust, you have a list of people you do - and it's f**king short. While 90% of gutshotters, 1808 clubbers, whatever are probably fine, it's precisely the remaining 10% that could give you a problem. I don't want anyone expecting favours from me, trying to give me favours, or looking like they are receiving a favour when I make an unorthodox play. When all that people have to do to join a "gang" is send an Email, how can you possibly vouch for them all ?
It might seem like a small thing, but if you get these things right it always saves you problems in the long run. If you want to join, fine. Do be careful of one other thing though - there is a tendency in these "gangs" for people to over-congratulate each other on minor and/or plain lucky results. It used to drive me mad on Gutshot, someone would describe how the deck hit them so hard they should have won a tournament twice over, they finished 5th, and everyone would go "brilliant result mate, well done". Perhaps done with the best of intentions, but it's not good for your game to be told you're much better than you are. Caveat, as I said before, emptor.
If anyone wants to discuss this civilly, go right ahead, but flames/insults will be ignored.
17/8/04 Follow-up : Maybe I've been reading too much Maddox but this comment on the forum today made me laugh : "And anyway poker is for loners, the outcasts, the cowboys for gods sake. The concept of a poker gang is inherently gay". If he had said pirates it could have been Maddox himself. I can't disagree with the overall sentiment.
3 Comments:
Andy,
My problem with Gutshot is slightly different. When the Collective was set up I thought it was just a bunch of like minded poker players (from Russell Sq) who just wanted something to belong to. Cheer each other on, have a beer together and have a website to take generally pour scorn on the non members. (Amarillo Slim fast sticks in my memory particularly)
After that casino closed, they filled a need by offering small stakes poker to the members. All very admirable.
But, around this time things seemed to change. Steve, who in my opinion is one of the funniest writers on poker I have read, started to drift away, and other people in the hierarchy saw a great way of making a few quid.
The opened the new cardroom and the whole ethos of Gutshot changed. From being a club where everyone had an equal say, it became a money making venture where the aim was to make as much loot from the members of as possible.
They have tried to keep the "collective" spirit which made them popular in the first place but now they as far away from being a collective as they could be.
For example, players who are banned from many casinos would have had the piss taken out of them in the old days on the forum. Now they are welcomed into the club.
It just seems they have hijacked the old Gutshot Collective and changed it out of all recognition.
I for one, would be very interested in Stve Bennett's view of the way the Collective has gone in the last 2 years
Andy and The Camel
You are both right, the "Collective" no longer exists. When I took up poker again after many years hiatus I found the gutshot website and enjoyed the (mostly) friendly banter. These days, Barry is doing a great job providing a club and service for the smaller stakes poker player and I wish him all the best of luck but I don't see any form of collective in that.
Did the collective exist originally? Probably; it was around before I returned to poker. There is still a hard-core group who have been there from the start but the kind of fraternity I saw in the nonsense congratulatory posts on minor tournament placings has not been there for a long time. And I don't miss it.
However Andy, while poker is definitely not a team game, for those of us who are only enthusiastic hobbyists we should be able to go into the bar afterwards with the guy who delivered that googly to get us out and share a drink with them (if we so choose). I hope you enjoy your poker.
Woo hoo comments ! Was beginning to think I was talking to myself.
You're right PinkfLOYDfan - it took me long enough but I realise that if you can't do whatever you do with a smile on your face, you should do something else instead.
Andy.
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